March 13th 2017

When I established the forums in 2005 it was to offer a more richer web experience and greater functionality than the platform where we started this social adventure in 2003, Yahoo Groups. The forums were once a busy hive of activity and provided locals and visitors with a wealth of information just like the Geocaching Ireland Discussion Group on Facebook today.

It was a time where we didn't have the many social media platforms we have today, and it was a different time in terms of mobility and technology. There was no instant access to information, no Google Maps and a very limited base map on your GPSr. Mobile connectivity for me was a 9600bps Infrared connection from a Nokia to a laptop and in later times to a PDA using WAP.

As we moved into the social media era so did our forums users. Geocaching Ireland moved there too, and we have a thriving community on the Geocaching Ireland Discussion Group on Facebook. As a result, forum activity isn't what it used to be and I have taken the decision to disable new registrations to the forums and to make the forums read only so any information there can still be accessed.

The discussion hasn't ended, it has just moved. Join us on the Facebook Geocaching Ireland Discussion Group .

Donnacha

Ask The Reviewer

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Croaghan
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:13 pm

toczygroszek wrote:I still think about this (can't eat, can't sleep ;)), and I asked few days ago on Groundspeak forum about this. And generally people said reference point is not part of multicache but just another spot, and this article in knowledgebase is incorrect. And it may be truth, beacause just after this discussion the article gone...
This was also discussed in the reviewers' forum as a result of your GC forum post. It appears that the use of reference point/QtA is used in both ways in various areas. The general consensus was that it doesn't really matter and you can use either as you see fit as they are both virtual points and therefore, not counted in a proximity check.
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Zoe andDaddy wrote:Are there any rules about holding an event at a place you have to pay to get in?
This is a bit of a grey area and very much depends on the venue and the nature of the event. What had you in mind?
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Frezeluberz » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:36 am

The rules state the ALRs are no longer allowed, but ...
Is it possible to set a puzzle cache with the coords encrypted and make cachers solve it?
If they can't solve it, can there be an optional way of acquiring the cache?
Say for example, get them to send you a photo of them standing somewhere?
When they send the photo you send the coords.
This wouldn't be an ALR ... it would be more of an OLR - 'O' meaning Optional.
The reason it's optional is that if they didn't want to do it then they can just solve the puzzle instead?
Hope I've explained that correctly.
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by johnrm » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:42 pm

Do you want people to do the puzzle or not?
Have it as part of the cache and turn it into a puzzle cache. Have whatever that answer is equate to numbers so that it can be plugged into a final coord.

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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:50 am

Frezeluberz wrote:The rules state the ALRs are no longer allowed, but ...
Is it possible to set a puzzle cache with the coords encrypted and make cachers solve it?
If they can't solve it, can there be an optional way of acquiring the cache?
Say for example, get them to send you a photo of them standing somewhere?
When they send the photo you send the coords.
This wouldn't be an ALR ... it would be more of an OLR - 'O' meaning Optional.
The reason it's optional is that if they didn't want to do it then they can just solve the puzzle instead?
Hope I've explained that correctly.
I'm not sure about this one. If it came into the queue I would take it to my fellow reviewer's for discussion so that's what I'm gonna do now :)

Like John though I'm a bit confused as to why you would want to do this as it skips the puzzle?
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Frezeluberz » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:02 am

johnrm wrote:Do you want people to do the puzzle or not?
Have it as part of the cache and turn it into a puzzle cache. Have whatever that answer is equate to numbers so that it can be plugged into a final coord.
Croaghan wrote:I'm a bit confused as to why you would want to do this as it skips the puzzle?
Some people don't like puzzles but might still like to acquire the cache - in that case they may (should they choose to do so) go for the taking the picture option.
You can't force people to do things like take photos as that is an ALR but if you make it optional then it's up to them.
I can't make a photo part of an encrypted puzzle.
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Kili or bust » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:12 am

Just throwing in an opinion (hope the Reviewer, or the person questioning, doesn't mind), in my experience if you create a puzzle and give another option, then virtually nobody will do the puzzle and it will seem like a wast of time. No matter how well you present info on a page and no matter how convoluted or complicated you make a puzzle, cachers will still find a way to short circuit or skip things just to get the cache and move on. That seems to be the reality so sorry to sound a bit cynical.
Also, it seems to me that as soon as a puzzle is "cracked" it is not long before a number of other cachers know the answer. This could of course be down to some taking longer than others but, with even with the best intentions in the world, I'm pretty sure the bush telegraph is used now and again too.

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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Frezeluberz » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:21 am

Kili or bust wrote:Just throwing in an opinion (hope the Reviewer, or the person questioning, doesn't mind), in my experience if you create a puzzle and give another option, then virtually nobody will do the puzzle and it will seem like a wast of time. No matter how well you present info on a page and no matter how convoluted or complicated you make a puzzle, cachers will still find a way to short circuit or skip things just to get the cache and move on. That seems to be the reality so sorry to sound a bit cynical.
Also, it seems to me that as soon as a puzzle is "cracked" it is not long before a number of other cachers know the answer. This could of course be down to some taking longer than others but, with even with the best intentions in the world, I'm pretty sure the bush telegraph is used now and again too.
If people ruin a puzzle then there's not a lot I can do about it.
I'm not worried about the puzzle bit of it too much.
I'm more interested in whether an optional element is allowed?
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by johnrm » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:02 pm

Sometimes where people don't have to post photos, they do. I know I do from time to time.

Theres no reason why you couldn't put 'Why not post a photo of yourself in front of the xxxx?' as part of the cache.
Thats optional and not an ALR.

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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by toczygroszek » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:05 pm

13. My friend asked me about unusual cache and I promised ask experienced reviewer 8) about it and send him answer back. So I'm doing it now.
Coordinates follows you to physical stage of cache, and in the container is only picture of another place and you have to find that place and final container there. I think the best idea is just place there stamp and set it as Lettebox-hybrid. But can you set is as Mystery/puzzle cache?

14. What can geocacher do if owner of cache keep delete his finds (e.g. because he doesn't like him), even if he left physical sign in logbook?

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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Frezeluberz » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:31 am

Croaghan wrote:I'm not sure about this one. If it came into the queue I would take it to my fellow reviewer's for discussion so that's what I'm gonna do now :)
Any word back yet?
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:47 pm

Frezeluberz wrote:
Croaghan wrote:I'm not sure about this one. If it came into the queue I would take it to my fellow reviewer's for discussion so that's what I'm gonna do now :)
Any word back yet?
Apologies Kevin....I forgot about this question :oops:

The overall consensus was that by giving someone the option of posting a photograph at a particular spot or completing a particular activity without signing the log would effectively make this a virtual cache and therefore wouldn't be allowed under the current guidelines.

An alternative would be to hide a box at the coordinates and allow logs to stand if someone found either that box or the one hidden at the puzzle coordinates. However, I can't really see the point of that either. If people don't want to do a puzzle cache then they can ignore it. If you want more people to visit your cache then make it a traditional or a multi.

Hope that answers your question (eventually!)

8)
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:01 pm

toczygroszek wrote:13. My friend asked me about unusual cache and I promised ask experienced reviewer 8) about it and send him answer back. So I'm doing it now.
Coordinates follows you to physical stage of cache, and in the container is only picture of another place and you have to find that place and final container there. I think the best idea is just place there stamp and set it as Lettebox-hybrid. But can you set is as Mystery/puzzle cache?
This sounds very like a cache I reviewed recently but which hasn't yet been published ;)

My personal opinion would be that this should be a Multi-cache as the posted coordinates take you to a physical container and then you use information there to find the final container. However, it could also be published as a Mystery/Puzzle cache as according to the GC.com guidelines a Mystery/Puzzle cache is "The "catch-all" of cache types"

As you say though it could also be easily converted to a Letterbox Hybrid by putting a stamp in the final.
toczygroszek wrote:14. What can geocacher do if owner of cache keep delete his finds (e.g. because he doesn't like him), even if he left physical sign in logbook?
The first step would be to contact GC.com using the email address contact@geocaching.com. This isn't the responsibilty of a reviewer but in some cases a reviewer will get involved and try to help out. Usually though there is some personal reasons involved and this needs to be dealt with directly by Groundspeak.
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by wildfowler » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:41 am

This might have be asked or answered already but I'll keep it quick!

Which part of a multi cache has to be the minimum distance from a traditional cache?
The first waypoint,ie. the one on the listing, or the final cache waypoint?
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:12 am

Nice easy one for a change :)

The proximity guideline applies to all physical stages of caches. If a multi is 4 virtual waypoints (Reference Points, Questions to Answer) and a final cache container then you only need to worry about the final but you need to consider all physical cache components in the nearby area (including multis and mysteries).

If you are unsure then the best thing to do is set up a blank cache page with just the coordinates and any Additional Waypoints that you have. Don't activate the cache but send me an email with the GC Code and I'll check it for proximity. Thankfully I have some automated tools that help me to do this :mrgreen:
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by wildfowler » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:29 am

Cheers Niall! Will do! :mrgreen:
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by toczygroszek » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:51 am

Croaghan wrote:
toczygroszek wrote:13. My friend asked me about unusual cache and I promised ask experienced reviewer 8) about it and send him answer back. So I'm doing it now.
Coordinates follows you to physical stage of cache, and in the container is only picture of another place and you have to find that place and final container there. I think the best idea is just place there stamp and set it as Lettebox-hybrid. But can you set is as Mystery/puzzle cache?
This sounds very like a cache I reviewed recently but which hasn't yet been published ;)

My personal opinion would be that this should be a Multi-cache as the posted coordinates take you to a physical container and then you use information there to find the final container. However, it could also be published as a Mystery/Puzzle cache as according to the GC.com guidelines a Mystery/Puzzle cache is "The "catch-all" of cache types"
But guidelines says:
Multi-Caches

There are many variations to multi-stage caches. The most common is that in which the first container or waypoint contains or provides coordinates to the next location. Another popular variant is a series of multiple waypoints, each of which provide partial coordinates for the final cache position. Please provide the coordinates of all stages of the multi-cache by using the "Additional Waypoints" feature. The posted coordinates are for the first stage. If you don't want the coordinates for the rest of the stages displayed, be sure to mark them as "hidden." Doing this will hide the coordinates from view by anyone except the owner and website volunteers.
So I think in multi-cache you using just coordinates to next stage, not other information

And I'm just not sure about using other informations for find final cache than than coordinates or other navigation techniques, this is reserved for letterbox-hybrid.

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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Frezeluberz » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:01 pm

Croaghan wrote:Hope that answers your question (eventually!)

8)
It answers the question, but not the way I was hoping.
Thanks for looking into it all the same though - much appreciated :)
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by Croaghan » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:05 pm

toczygroszek wrote:
Croaghan wrote:
toczygroszek wrote:13. My friend asked me about unusual cache and I promised ask experienced reviewer 8) about it and send him answer back. So I'm doing it now.
Coordinates follows you to physical stage of cache, and in the container is only picture of another place and you have to find that place and final container there. I think the best idea is just place there stamp and set it as Lettebox-hybrid. But can you set is as Mystery/puzzle cache?
This sounds very like a cache I reviewed recently but which hasn't yet been published ;)

My personal opinion would be that this should be a Multi-cache as the posted coordinates take you to a physical container and then you use information there to find the final container. However, it could also be published as a Mystery/Puzzle cache as according to the GC.com guidelines a Mystery/Puzzle cache is "The "catch-all" of cache types"
But guidelines says:
Multi-Caches

There are many variations to multi-stage caches. The most common is that in which the first container or waypoint contains or provides coordinates to the next location. Another popular variant is a series of multiple waypoints, each of which provide partial coordinates for the final cache position. Please provide the coordinates of all stages of the multi-cache by using the "Additional Waypoints" feature. The posted coordinates are for the first stage. If you don't want the coordinates for the rest of the stages displayed, be sure to mark them as "hidden." Doing this will hide the coordinates from view by anyone except the owner and website volunteers.
You can read that in a different way:
Multi-Caches

There are many variations to multi-stage caches. The most common is that in which the first container or waypoint contains or provides coordinates to the next location. Another popular variant is a series of multiple waypoints, each of which provide partial coordinates for the final cache position. Please provide the coordinates of all stages of the multi-cache by using the "Additional Waypoints" feature. The posted coordinates are for the first stage. If you don't want the coordinates for the rest of the stages displayed, be sure to mark them as "hidden." Doing this will hide the coordinates from view by anyone except the owner and website volunteers.
toczygroszek wrote:So I think in multi-cache you using just coordinates to next stage, not other information
So what about multi-caches where you have to visit information boards to get information to calculate the location of the cache. It's the same thing.

Also what about library caches where you have to find a container that contains a shelf code and book name which is a fake book containing the cache. That is information other than coordinates and they are multi-caches.
toczygroszek wrote:And I'm just not sure about using other informations for find final cache than than coordinates or other navigation techniques, this is reserved for letterbox-hybrid.
An LBH cache must contain a stamp. That is what makes it an LBH, not the method of finding it
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Re: Ask The Reviewer

Post by wildfowler » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:10 pm

How'd that happen? One minute it's dino, next minute it's Croaghan?????

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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