March 13th 2017

When I established the forums in 2005 it was to offer a more richer web experience and greater functionality than the platform where we started this social adventure in 2003, Yahoo Groups. The forums were once a busy hive of activity and provided locals and visitors with a wealth of information just like the Geocaching Ireland Discussion Group on Facebook today.

It was a time where we didn't have the many social media platforms we have today, and it was a different time in terms of mobility and technology. There was no instant access to information, no Google Maps and a very limited base map on your GPSr. Mobile connectivity for me was a 9600bps Infrared connection from a Nokia to a laptop and in later times to a PDA using WAP.

As we moved into the social media era so did our forums users. Geocaching Ireland moved there too, and we have a thriving community on the Geocaching Ireland Discussion Group on Facebook. As a result, forum activity isn't what it used to be and I have taken the decision to disable new registrations to the forums and to make the forums read only so any information there can still be accessed.

The discussion hasn't ended, it has just moved. Join us on the Facebook Geocaching Ireland Discussion Group .

Donnacha

Attending Events By Skype

Talk about events

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Serapis
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Attending Events By Skype

Post by Serapis » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:30 pm

Hi all,
Was just looking over the recent 12.12.12 event in Dungarvan which unfortunately I could not attend due to work commitments. I was surprised to see 76 attendees!! Some turn out I thought until I realised the majority of people ‘attended’ via Skype.

I was just wondering if there are any rules and regulations about this sort of attendance. One of the logical conclusions of this type of attendance is that a person could hold and event any place any where with no people being actually physically present. It seems to go against the idea of an event.

Also, are other communication modalities valid to log an attendance – Could I txt/phone/email/write a letter to somebody attending and then claim an attendance?

Anyone any ideas?

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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by fitzet » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:42 pm

Not events, per se, but there are caches (e.g. GC183ZQ) that people can log without ever having visitied that country, let alone the cache. So, to me, the principle is established.

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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by dino » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:31 pm

As a responsible CO these logs should be deleted as they are bogus. This is covered by the guidelines and has been pointed out to the event organisers before the events took place as it was discussed extensively on Facebook. Allowing these logs to remain is a complete farce to be honest!
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by bawnman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:58 pm

I agree, is this going to turn into a game where you can sit at your computer, find a photo of a cache and log it as found?

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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by Blue Jay » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:58 pm

I totally agree. I also understand it was pointed out to at least one event organiser that logging after "attending" via Skype was not permitted the event organiser had to remove this from the cache page or it wouldn't gave been published .
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by TXLiz » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:40 pm

something to look at kinda interesting ... blah blah blah

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index. ... pic=278142
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by THE_Chris » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:46 pm

The problem is if the CO went out and actually deleted all the logs of Skype attendees, there would be a lot of thoroughly pissed off people out there! Personally, I'd log the other events with a note only, to say I'd attended via Skype. But not as an "Attended" log. That would make a hash out of my stats. I certainly wouldn't feel right about deleting all those logs and given that there are about 90 logs to go through it would take far too long to individually delete them, time I'd much rather spend caching! :)

All that said, two of the UK events were at least 4* difficulty and 4* terrain, for a pub meetup. Which I thought was kind of interesting!

I don't agree with Skype logging events either, but each to their own I say. I actually queried it with one of the events on the night and said Skype logging wasnt allowed, but they told me that Jeremy Irish said each persons game is different :arrow:

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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by dino » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:06 pm

If I had been the event organiser and was aware of the virtual logging I would have posted in advance that it wouldn't be accepted.

Not deleting them in my book is the same as allowing armchair logging of traditional caches.

I understand why you're reluctant to delete them but I would just do it and be damned!
Some gal would giggle and I'd get red
And some guy'd laugh and I'd bust his head,
I tell ya, life ain't easy for a boy named "Sue."

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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by TXLiz » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:33 pm

A damn abomination I say!!! I look forward to the day when there will be a virtually attended symbol. ..Oh and it'LL happen!! :wink:
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by Blue Jay » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:01 pm

dino wrote:As a responsible CO these logs should be deleted as they are bogus. This is covered by the guidelines and has been pointed out to the event organisers before the events took place as it was discussed extensively on Facebook. Allowing these logs to remain is a complete farce to be honest!
dino wrote:If I had been the event organiser and was aware of the virtual logging I would have posted in advance that it wouldn't be accepted.

Not deleting them in my book is the same as allowing armchair logging of traditional caches.

I understand why you're reluctant to delete them but I would just do it and be damned!
THE_Chris wrote:The problem is if the CO went out and actually deleted all the logs of Skype attendees, there would be a lot of thoroughly pissed off people out there! Personally, I'd log the other events with a note only, to say I'd attended via Skype. But not as an "Attended" log. That would make a hash out of my stats. I certainly wouldn't feel right about deleting all those logs and given that there are about 90 logs to go through it would take far too long to individually delete them, time I'd much rather spend caching! :)
.........
I actually queried it with one of the events on the night and said Skype logging wasnt allowed, but they told me that Jeremy Irish said each persons game is different :arrow:
This is ridiculous! - it makes a farce of attending an event at all - what's the point ????? - sure I'll just stay at home and maybe phone someone at the event and then I can log it. Just with regard to the Dublin one that I actually attended - in the real world - not the skype world! - I have no idea who was at the other events or who wasn't there - (well actually I can see a few logs of people that I know definitely weren't there! - but they have gone way down in my estimation and their stats are now irrelevant to me and others as they are publicly logging bogus finds.)

But in the mean time - the rules are clear - there is no ambiguity here - the rules have been pointed out to the CO's before the events - it is the CO's duty to delete bogus logs! That is fairly clear - for the Dublin event we all know who was there - the photo of the logbooks have been uploaded to the cache page - there are I believe 20 valid accounts signed in the log books - all other logs should be deleted by the CO - regardless of whether there are pissed off people out there or not !!!!! Who cares if they are pissed off at not being allowed log an event that they were not at!

Thankfully most of the bogus logging is not coming from the people who genuinely attended the Dublin event - it would seem at a cursory glance that only two attendees of the Dublin event also logged Bogus logs at other events - and around 5 cachers at the other Irish events have logged bogus logs at events they did not attend. The vast majority of the bogus logs are from cachers across the pond.

When a cacher plans an event & have it published they are taking on to run it under the baner of Geocaching and under their rules - they as a CO have a responsibility to see it's run correctly.

So the problem isn't
THE_Chris wrote:The problem is if the CO went out and actually deleted all the logs of Skype attendees, there would be a lot of thoroughly pissed off people out there!
The problem is that the CO is not living up to their side of the arrangement and the rules.

It would apprear that the CO of the Dublin event was well aware of this - since he says he mentioned on skype to some of the cachers who were at other events on the night that it wasn't allowed. Their answer / excuses about it have no value.

And the time it would take to delete the logs is not an excuse - it could be done in 5 minutes.

The other CO's should also do this.
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by THE_Chris » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:57 pm

Alright... I'll make an announcement asking people to turn their attended logs into notes. Will give them a chance at least...

Over Christmas I'll delete the logs of everyone who hasn't complied. Didn't think this would be such a big deal to be honest, its everyones individual stats and game after all.... and we need a 'Logged by Skype' tag for events on the site, would stop all of this disagreement. In future if there are Skype links planned there'll be a note on the event page.

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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by Blue Jay » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:19 pm

You're to be admired for it Chris =D> =D> =D> - if only the CO's were also prepared to do the right thing too.
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by TXLiz » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:00 pm

Kinda twisted .. to shame someone into doing something and then you admire them ??
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by Blue Jay » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:54 pm

TXLiz - Are you calling me twisted or my words?

I don't think there's any need to resort to name calling - & of course I can admire The_Chris for doing the right thing. Having spoken to The_Chris about this skype logging I felt he was not happy about it from the start - why else would he ask the other event attendees their stand on it etc.... The_Chris did not log the other events as "attended" himself.

Sometimes (not necessarily this occassion) if people know others support their view it can give them the momentum to act.

I wonder why you are so interested anyhow? I don't think you were at any of the events? Would a ruling on attending events remotely i.e.: logging events bogusly affect you in any way?
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by beefy4605 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:55 pm

my opinion - If you were not actually there and signed the book you didn't attend .End of . Any thing else is a false log and should be deleted.
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by TXLiz » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:38 pm

Blue Jay wrote:
I wonder why you are so interested anyhow? I don't think you were at any of the events? Would a ruling on attending events remotely i.e.: logging events bogusly affect you in any way?

No..I wasn't calling names. Serapis wasn't at any event and he started this thread. I was giving my opinion.
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by Blue Jay » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:29 pm

TXLiz wrote:Kinda twisted .. to shame someone into doing something and then you admire them ??
Well we are all entitled to our opinions - and I appreciate that Serapis didn't attend any of the talked about events either - but his questions were around the rules & regulations around the skype logging etc that he had noticed - your opinions were directed to me & my comments on my thoughts on the skype logging & the way I felt it should be handled - i.e. my opinion of the bogus logging of events.

I presume you intended this opinion to be responded to as you included 2 question marks also.
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by TXLiz » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:14 pm

it was more of a thought 'am I reading this right' .. the reason for the two question marks. It does read that way, to me...And that is my opinion. Sorry if I offended....... And thats all I have to say about that.end
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by SargeNI » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:41 pm

My Opinion – to claim a smilie you sign the log.

But my opinion does not account for how the Groundspeak game is played, if my opinion counted:-
• Then we could still be able to create virtual caches;
• I’d ban power trails like the Alien Highway, as they are too far away from me and they make a mockery of the smilie count.
• We wouldn’t have challenge caches, as they require a logging requirement other than signing the log and more importantly the majority are too difficult in realtion to the DT rating;
• Groundspeak wouldn’t allow event caches in a pub to be rated as a 4.5 terrain 4 difficulty, as it demeans the whole DT grid;
• etc, etc.

The game would be a lot more restrictive if I were in charge. If I made the rules it would be highly likely that I’d alienate vast swathes of the geocaching community – now where have I heard that before.

Back to wither or not you can claim a smilie for virtually attending a Groundspeak Event Cache. Let’s look at the facts:-

Has Groundspeak allowed Techno Events before?
• YES - I understand from discussions on the Groundspeak Forums that a number of Techno Events have been created in the past where it was acceptable to attend the event via Skype. With the EO making the final discussion on who could claim a smilie.

Did the EO make it clear before the event they were creating a Techno Event by providing Skype link-up with other groups and individuals?
• YES – Facebook and the discussion forums were full of discussions prior to the event about worldwide link ups via skype, etc. I know that I considered logging in via Skype from hospital, in the end I didn’t. I have an opinions of how the game is played which personal stopped me logging an event, but as shown earlier my opinion of how others play the game is of little interest to the wider community and if it started to worry me how others played the game I’d take my ball (well my GPSr anyway) and move to another game.

Is there any specific Groundspeak rule which prohibits Techno Events?
• NO – the Groundspeak rules would appear to be too vague to specific discount the use of virtual attendance at an event. If there was a rule then Groundspeak would delete the logs and not leave it up to the individual. For me this means it’s up to the individuals’ opinion on how to play the game, which brings me back to the start of this argument once again.

Should Groundspeak tighten up there rules?
• YES/NO – In my opinion, they’re damn if they do and they're damn if you don’t. In this specific case, the horse has bolted and long gone, but now that it’s out you should shut the stable door to avoid any further horses wandering out in the future without knowing they are not supposed to go out of the stable. There I am using my opinion again without any right to use it.

Have I learnt anything from this experience?
• YES – periodically there is always something thing which comes along to make the forums more interesting and gets everyone worked up.
• YES - we all have the potential to make mountains out of mole and take this game too seriously, next we'll want to be politians ;)

Hopefully these comments have brought a smile to you and remember I'm as likely to be as ill informed as the next and my opinion is no more important than yours.

Merry Christmas
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Re: Attending Events By Skype

Post by Mini-Tap » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:02 pm

SargeNI wrote:My Opinion – to claim a smilie you sign the log.

But my opinion does not account for how the Groundspeak game is played, if my opinion counted:-
• Then we could still be able to create virtual caches;
• I’d ban power trails like the Alien Highway, as they are too far away from me and they make a mockery of the smilie count.
• We wouldn’t have challenge caches, as they require a logging requirement other than signing the log and more importantly the majority are too difficult in realtion to the DT rating;
• Groundspeak wouldn’t allow event caches in a pub to be rated as a 4.5 terrain 4 difficulty, as it demeans the whole DT grid;
• etc, etc.

The game would be a lot more restrictive if I were in charge. If I made the rules it would be highly likely that I’d alienate vast swathes of the geocaching community – now where have I heard that before.

Back to wither or not you can claim a smilie for virtually attending a Groundspeak Event Cache. Let’s look at the facts:-

Has Groundspeak allowed Techno Events before?
• YES - I understand from discussions on the Groundspeak Forums that a number of Techno Events have been created in the past where it was acceptable to attend the event via Skype. With the EO making the final discussion on who could claim a smilie.

Did the EO make it clear before the event they were creating a Techno Event by providing Skype link-up with other groups and individuals?
• YES – Facebook and the discussion forums were full of discussions prior to the event about worldwide link ups via skype, etc. I know that I considered logging in via Skype from hospital, in the end I didn’t. I have an opinions of how the game is played which personal stopped me logging an event, but as shown earlier my opinion of how others play the game is of little interest to the wider community and if it started to worry me how others played the game I’d take my ball (well my GPSr anyway) and move to another game.

Is there any specific Groundspeak rule which prohibits Techno Events?
• NO – the Groundspeak rules would appear to be too vague to specific discount the use of virtual attendance at an event. If there was a rule then Groundspeak would delete the logs and not leave it up to the individual. For me this means it’s up to the individuals’ opinion on how to play the game, which brings me back to the start of this argument once again.

Should Groundspeak tighten up there rules?
• YES/NO – In my opinion, they’re damn if they do and they're damn if you don’t. In this specific case, the horse has bolted and long gone, but now that it’s out you should shut the stable door to avoid any further horses wandering out in the future without knowing they are not supposed to go out of the stable. There I am using my opinion again without any right to use it.

Have I learnt anything from this experience?
• YES – periodically there is always something thing which comes along to make the forums more interesting and gets everyone worked up.
• YES - we all have the potential to make mountains out of mole and take this game too seriously, next we'll want to be politians ;)

Hopefully these comments have brought a smile to you and remember I'm as likely to be as ill informed as the next and my opinion is no more important than yours.

Merry Christmas
Hi Sarge NI,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I was at the Dungarvan event, and i logged an attend on the other events we linked to, but I did so apprehensively, knowing that it could explode back in our faces. My first concern was the statistics, my find furthest North was the scottish event, and I have never cached there. I do like the stats page. I read the thread late last night, and everyone was right/everyone was wrong. The game is about looking for a plastic box under a tree! No one will die if I log 2 or 3 (or in this case 4) extra caches. I have come across a few dubious characters though gcing, who have definately lost the run of themselves. Because I don't consider it so seriously as those dubious characters, i had no problem deleting the attend and writing a note. To those who have been morally affected to the core, I say, go get a life,

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